This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. In order to participate and receive the Zoom link, register by clicking the RSVP button above or by emailing carla@smithcenter.org.

You will receive the Zoom information no later than the morning of your program.

with Jodi Kanter

Theater Games
PC: https://spolingamesonline.org/

“Improvising is openness to contact with the environment and each other and willingness to play.”

— Viola Spolin

 

Take a break from your Monday and get in touch with your sense of play through theater games. Very different from “improv” shows designed for entertainment, these simple, structured improvisation sessions will lead us through building environments, creating characters, making images, moving and inventing new languages using nothing but our bodies and our virtually shared space.

The foundation of this workshop will be the theater games and explorations of Viola Spolin, author of the classic Improvisation for the Theatre. These games focus on a wide range of core acting skills including nonverbal communication, concentration, listening, observation, character, relationship, and sensory awareness.

Actor and filmmaker Rob Reiner attested that the principles behind Spolin’s games “have formed the basis of all the work I’ve done.” Elsewhere, another writer described them as “structures designed to almost fool spontaneity into being.” Spolin’s work is taught all over the world to children and adults, professional actors, educators, and community members.

We will apply these skills to storytelling and our individual healing journeys. No previous theater experience required.


Theater Games Workshop will be hosted on the 1st & 3rd Mondays from 2:30-3:45pm ET. 

Upcoming Dates:

  • November 1 & 15
  • December 6 & 20

Suggested Donation: $10


About Jodi Kanter

Jodi Kanter

Jodi has been involved in theater since she was ten years old. She grew up acting and studying performance in American theater’s “Second City,” Chicago Illinois.  She is currently a professor of theatre in the Corcoran School of the Arts and Design at George Washington University, where she has been on faculty for nearly fifteen years. Her academic work in theater includes her book, Performing Loss: Strengthening Communities Through Theatre and Writing (2007). Jodi’s focus on performance as a tool for individual and social healing and change has led her to create workshops, events and productions in a wide variety of settings including hospitals, schools, and prisons. Most recently, she co-created a four-month diversity and inclusion program for members of DC’s fourteen Neighborhood Village associations using the methodology of Augusto Boal’s Theatre of the Oppressed. Jodi holds a PhD. in Performance Studies from Northwestern University and is currently pursuing a Master’s degree in dramatherapy at Lesley University.

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. In order to participate and receive the Zoom link, register by clicking the RSVP button above or by emailing carla@smithcenter.org.

You will receive the Zoom information no later than the morning of your program.

with Kenneth Johnson and Kevin Miller

A Healing Circle: Gay Men with Prostate Cancer

We are a group of gay men who have been diagnosed with prostate cancer or who are recovering from treatment that offer support to each other. In a peer-led community, we share our experiences and understanding to help one another best deal with our own personal situations.


The Healing Circle for Gay Men with Prostate Cancer meets Monthly on the 4th Thursday from 7:00pm – 8:30pm ET.

Upcoming Dates: 

  • October 28
  • November 18
  • December 23

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. In order to participate and receive the Zoom link, register by clicking the RSVP button above or by emailing carla@smithcenter.org.

You will receive the Zoom information no later than the morning of your program.

with Maude Fish & Bonnie Vermillion

Healing Circle for People Living with Lymphedema

This ongoing healing circle will focus on the unique needs that people who are living with Lymphedema face. No matter where you find yourself on your journey you will have a chance to be with others who share in your experience. This shared experience will often lead to profound learning and healing.


What is a Healing Circle?

Healing Circles bring together small numbers of people impacted by a condition or circumstance to share experiences and harvest collective wisdom.  Healing Circles is a peer-led process by which people support each other through deep listening and shared learning. When working at its best, this collaborative conversation model leads to authentic and deep connectivity and can create wisdom and healing for participants.

Healing Circle for People Living with Lymphedema will be held Monthly on Thursdays from 6:00-7:00pm ET.

Upcoming Dates:

  • October 28
  • November 18

About Maude Fish

Maude Fish has performed classical music throughout the DC Metro area since she moved to Washington in 1988. Currently, she plays regularly with the Amadeus Chamber Orchestra, the Virginia Chamber Orchestra, The Arlington Philharmonic, and the Tysons-McLean Orchestra. In prior years, she has worked with orchestras as distant as Roanoke, VA, and St. Mary’s, MD. She teaches piano and bassoon privately from her home in Chevy Chase, DC. She is no stranger to Smith Center having participated in a day-long writers retreat and yoga classes when she finished active treatment for breast cancer in 2004. Additionally, her chamber group performed at Smith Center at a gallery opening for the Alchemical Vessels Exhibit. In her spare time, she enjoys walking, cooking, knitting, and writing. She is married with two adult children, her dog Otto, and Cookie the Cockatiel.

About Bonnie Vermillion

Bonnie Vermillion

I am a Cancer survivor/thriver since 1998 and have had lymphedema since 2002. I initially had so much trouble finding information on lymphedema that I went online and found an exercise program that was developed to maintain lymphedema. I became an instructor, then trainer, and finally acquired the program in 2014. I currently teach classes in central Virginia. I’m also a regional coordinator for Chronic Disease Self Management workshops, so actively work with small groups of participants for them to self-manage their chronic conditions. I am also a volunteer Ombudsman with the local Agency on Aging and a volunteer with the Alzheimer’s Association as a support group facilitator and speaker.

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. Please click here to register for a 6-week circle.

with Kiersten Gallagher and Paul Puccinelli

Grief Circle

Please join us in a series Healing Circles for Grief “to discover the extent and limits of what is lost, what is left and what is possible.”  – John Schneider

If you have lost a loved one, this is an opportunity to share what is on your heart and mind right now, to listen and be listened to deeply and generously. Together we create a safe space for listening to messages from our inner experience. 

Our healing circles are a safe and supportive space to walk with each other through these times. Each circle is a blend of sharing and silence, compassion, and curiosity. Our agreements ensure acceptance and confidentiality. We honor our own unique paths to healing and respect the choices of others.


Some Assumptions about Grief

  • The experience of grief is unique for each individual. While we can make some general assumptions, there is no template that describes the experience for all people.
  • Grief is cumulative. That is, each time loss is grieved, the grief encompasses the lifetime of loss and the remnants of each experience.
  • Grief following a significant loss is most often a lifelong process, with each pivotal point in life bringing the grief back up to be processed from a new perspective.
  • Grief, loss and suffering fundamentally changes and reshapes the individual.
  • Grief is not about forgetting or disconnecting. Rather, healthy grief is about remembering the parts of self that get lost amidst the experience and reorienting the individual in their relationship with self, the world and others.
  • Grief is a whole body experience: emotional, physical, spiritual and intellectual. Each have a wide range of expression which can cue us that grief is present.
  • While grief and trauma are often intertwined there are significant differences between them. Trauma should be addressed with trauma specific interventions that often go beyond what is possible in circles.

Adapted from Khris Ford


Grieving Together Healing Circle will meet Weekly on Wednesdays from 2:00-3:30pm EST for 6 weeks.

Grief Circle Dates:

  • October 6, 13, 20 & 27
  • November 3 & 10

About Kiersten Gallagher

Kiersten Gallagher

Kiersten has served as the Cancer Support Program Director for Smith Center since 2014. Before coming to Smith Center, she had the privilege to serve individuals and families living with cancer at Wellness House of Annapolis. Kiersten aims to offer programs to reduce stress and help participants to see the world we live in from different perspectives. She thoroughly enjoys teaching yoga and creativity classes at SmithCenter and encourages gentle movement and creativity in the healing process. Kiersten is a certified yoga instructor through Yoga Alliance and also has her YCAT (Yoga Therapy in Cancer and Chronic Illness) Professional Certification through the Integral Yoga Academy. She has completed Patient Navigation training through Smith Center’s Institute for Integrative Oncology Navigation and has also completed the Commonweal Healing Circles: Advanced Cancer Support Training. Kiersten is also certified in CLIMB®(Children’s Lives Include Moments of Bravery) a program that aims to build upon the strengths of children and increase his/her ability to cope with stress associated with a parent’s illness. She believes in a holistic approach to healing, human relationships and is grateful for each and every day. In her spare time, you may find Kiersten laughing with friends, cycling, taking art classes, practicing yoga and spending time with her husband Shane, son Liam, and dogs Hooper and Pablo.

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. Please click here to register for a 6-week circle.

with Kiersten Gallagher and Paul Puccinelli

Grief Circle

Please join us in a series Healing Circles for Grief “to discover the extent and limits of what is lost, what is left and what is possible.”  – John Schneider

If you have lost a loved one, this is an opportunity to share what is on your heart and mind right now, to listen and be listened to deeply and generously. Together we create a safe space for listening to messages from our inner experience. 

Our healing circles are a safe and supportive space to walk with each other through these times. Each circle is a blend of sharing and silence, compassion, and curiosity. Our agreements ensure acceptance and confidentiality. We honor our own unique paths to healing and respect the choices of others.


Some Assumptions about Grief

  • The experience of grief is unique for each individual. While we can make some general assumptions, there is no template that describes the experience for all people.
  • Grief is cumulative. That is, each time loss is grieved, the grief encompasses the lifetime of loss and the remnants of each experience.
  • Grief following a significant loss is most often a lifelong process, with each pivotal point in life bringing the grief back up to be processed from a new perspective.
  • Grief, loss and suffering fundamentally changes and reshapes the individual.
  • Grief is not about forgetting or disconnecting. Rather, healthy grief is about remembering the parts of self that get lost amidst the experience and reorienting the individual in their relationship with self, the world and others.
  • Grief is a whole body experience: emotional, physical, spiritual and intellectual. Each have a wide range of expression which can cue us that grief is present.
  • While grief and trauma are often intertwined there are significant differences between them. Trauma should be addressed with trauma specific interventions that often go beyond what is possible in circles.

Adapted from Khris Ford


Grieving Together Healing Circle will meet Weekly on Wednesdays from 2:00-3:30pm EST for 6 weeks.

Grief Circle Dates:

  • October 6, 13, 20 & 27
  • November 3 & 10

About Kiersten Gallagher

Kiersten Gallagher

Kiersten has served as the Cancer Support Program Director for Smith Center since 2014. Before coming to Smith Center, she had the privilege to serve individuals and families living with cancer at Wellness House of Annapolis. Kiersten aims to offer programs to reduce stress and help participants to see the world we live in from different perspectives. She thoroughly enjoys teaching yoga and creativity classes at SmithCenter and encourages gentle movement and creativity in the healing process. Kiersten is a certified yoga instructor through Yoga Alliance and also has her YCAT (Yoga Therapy in Cancer and Chronic Illness) Professional Certification through the Integral Yoga Academy. She has completed Patient Navigation training through Smith Center’s Institute for Integrative Oncology Navigation and has also completed the Commonweal Healing Circles: Advanced Cancer Support Training. Kiersten is also certified in CLIMB®(Children’s Lives Include Moments of Bravery) a program that aims to build upon the strengths of children and increase his/her ability to cope with stress associated with a parent’s illness. She believes in a holistic approach to healing, human relationships and is grateful for each and every day. In her spare time, you may find Kiersten laughing with friends, cycling, taking art classes, practicing yoga and spending time with her husband Shane, son Liam, and dogs Hooper and Pablo.

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. In order to participate and receive the Zoom link, register by clicking the RSVP button above or by emailing carla@smithcenter.org.

You will receive the Zoom information no later than the morning of your program.

with Jodi Kanter

Theater Games
PC: https://spolingamesonline.org/

“Improvising is openness to contact with the environment and each other and willingness to play.”

— Viola Spolin

 

Take a break from your Monday and get in touch with your sense of play through theater games. Very different from “improv” shows designed for entertainment, these simple, structured improvisation sessions will lead us through building environments, creating characters, making images, moving and inventing new languages using nothing but our bodies and our virtually shared space.

The foundation of this workshop will be the theater games and explorations of Viola Spolin, author of the classic Improvisation for the Theatre. These games focus on a wide range of core acting skills including nonverbal communication, concentration, listening, observation, character, relationship, and sensory awareness.

Actor and filmmaker Rob Reiner attested that the principles behind Spolin’s games “have formed the basis of all the work I’ve done.” Elsewhere, another writer described them as “structures designed to almost fool spontaneity into being.” Spolin’s work is taught all over the world to children and adults, professional actors, educators, and community members.

We will apply these skills to storytelling and our individual healing journeys. No previous theater experience required.


Theater Games Workshop will be hosted on the 1st & 3rd Mondays from 2:30-3:45pm ET. 

Upcoming Dates:

  • October 4 & 18
  • November 1 & 15
  • December 6 & 20

Suggested Donation: $10


About Jodi Kanter

Jodi Kanter

Jodi has been involved in theater since she was ten years old. She grew up acting and studying performance in American theater’s “Second City,” Chicago Illinois.  She is currently a professor of theatre in the Corcoran School of the Arts and Design at George Washington University, where she has been on faculty for nearly fifteen years. Her academic work in theater includes her book, Performing Loss: Strengthening Communities Through Theatre and Writing (2007). Jodi’s focus on performance as a tool for individual and social healing and change has led her to create workshops, events and productions in a wide variety of settings including hospitals, schools, and prisons. Most recently, she co-created a four-month diversity and inclusion program for members of DC’s fourteen Neighborhood Village associations using the methodology of Augusto Boal’s Theatre of the Oppressed. Jodi holds a PhD. in Performance Studies from Northwestern University and is currently pursuing a Master’s degree in dramatherapy at Lesley University.

In-person event. Please email programs@smithcenter.org by October 12th if you would like to participate as a volunteer.

with Soul Box Project and Community Partners

Soul Box Project

Soul Box Exhibit on the National Mall

The Soul Box Project exhibit on the National Mall will be the largest memorial to date, providing a dramatic visual for the incomprehensible number of people killed or injured by gunfire in the U.S. in fewer than three years.

Within this exhibit, almost 36,000 Soul Boxes will represent the number of U.S. gunfire deaths in just one year. This selection of Boxes will be exhibited on display panels under an open pavilion spanning the width of the Mall. Visitors will be able to get up close to view these memorials personalized with names, messages and compelling artwork.

Hundreds of volunteers will carry 164,000 additional Soul Boxes, representing the unnamed victims of gunfire, onto the Mall in a solemn procession.

The title of this exhibit, This Loss We Carry, is an apt description of how we can honor the many lives torn apart by the gunfire epidemic, echoing similar words from Amanda Gorman’s 2021 inaugural poem, “The Hill We Climb.”

 

We will be participating in a volunteer capacity for the event on Saturday, October 16th. On behalf of all of our community partners, we would love for you to join us in-person at the Mall!

Here’s where individuals can sign up to help with volunteer tasks over the weekend:

The final drop-off day for any completed Soul Boxes you have folded is Monday, September 20th at Smith Center for Healing and the Arts.


Click here to read Let Your Voice Be Heard with the Soul Box Project press release, with words from our Executive Director, Lisa Simms Booth. We are honored to be participating in this project in collaboration with a few of our community partners, including: 

  • Joan Hisaoka Healing Arts Gallery
  • Smith Center’s Artist-in-Residence Program
  • Thelma D. Jones Breast Cancer Fund
  • Southwest Neighborhood Assembly Youth Activities Task Force

Supplies Needed

  • at least two sheets of 8 1/2-inch square paper
  • any art supplies to adorn your Soul Box

Click to download Soul Box Folding Instructions.

Click the video below to watch “How do I fold a Soul Box?”


Upcoming Soul Box-Making sessions

  • Saturday, September 18, 11am ET

Smith Center will be organizing drop-off days and times to collect your completed Soul Boxes, as a part of our goal to create 500 Soul Boxes to add to the display at the National Mall on October 16-17, 2021.


About Soul Box Project

Soul Box Project

The Soul Box Project collects and exhibits thousands of hand-folded origami boxes to raise awareness of the U.S. gunfire epidemic. Each Soul Box holds space for one life lost or injured by gun violence, defense, accident or suicide.

About the Joan Hisaoka Healing Arts Gallery

Joan Hisaoka Healing Arts Gallery

Art has the rare ability to mend social, psychological, and physical ills by building community, inspiring change, and celebrating life. Founded in 2008, the Joan Hisaoka Healing Arts Gallery at Smith Center for Healing and the Arts, is a nonprofit arts space in Washington, DC. The gallery is dedicated to exhibiting fine art that explores the innate connection between healing and creativity. Through a rotating exhibition schedule, the gallery features contemporary artists that address a diversity of significant themes, including spirituality, social change, multiculturalism, health, environmentalism, and community.

About Smith Center’s Artist-in-Residence Program

Smith Center's Artist-in-Residence Program

The Artist in Residence Program (AIR) reflects the belief that the creative spirit can be found in all of us and can be especially helpful when the human spirit is in need. Smith Center for Healing and the Arts (Smith Center) trains and supervises local visual, literary and performing artists who work directly with patients, caregivers and clinicians at INOVA Schar Cancer Institute (Inova Schar)

Artists in Residence guide arts-based activities that lead to stress reduction, self-awareness and self-expression. Patients and caregivers who participate often express great relief from pain and anxiety associated with their illness and are grateful for an opportunity to discover and explore what they can do. Heath care workers discover that creative self-expression helps to relieve stress that can lead to burnout and lack of resiliency.

About the Thelma D. Jones Breast Cancer Fund

Thelma D. Jones Breast Cancer Fund

The Thelma D. Jones Breast Cancer Fund (TDJBCF) is a unique nonprofit grassroots organization whose mission is to advocate and improve the overall health and wellness for women and men through outreach, education and support. We promote early detection strategies for breast health and access to the best biomedical and evidence-based complementary therapies to reduce the incidences and mortality rates of breast cancer. Founded in September 2012 on the 60th Birthday Anniversary of Thelma D. Jones, the TDJBCF is a 501(c)(3) organization.

Our vision is to save lives and embrace and achieve a world community free of breast cancer. We plan to realize this vision with guiding principles of respect, collaboration, quality and patient-centered care, culturally sensitive approaches, and evidence-based strategies.

About the Southwest Neighborhood Assembly Youth Activities Task Force

Southwest Neighborhood Assembly Youth Activities Task Force

Our Mission: To improve the quality of life for all residents; to open to every resident the wide cultural horizon of urban living; to help create rich and equal social, educational and economic opportunities for residents of Southwest DC; to assist in providing the opportunity for gainful employment for all; to promote development of the economic and aesthetic potential of Southwest; and preserve its diverse history. This mission shall be pursued without regard to the social, economic and racial barriers that have divided cities in the past.

This program series is being offered virtually through Zoom. If you missed the first session, please email carla@smithcenter.org

with Jodi Kanter

“[D]rama as therapy sets a stage in which truths are revealed, deeper levels of communication and understanding are attained, and the personal reverberates toward the universal.”

– Renée Emunah, Drama Therapist

 

Psychiatrists and social workers have been using drama for therapeutic purposes for at least the last 100 years. Today, the principal objectives of dramatherapy are the strengthening of observational and relational skills, greater access to emotional expression (and emotional containment), and the expansion of the many roles we play in everyday life. We’ll explore a range of tools and methods including role methods, psychodrama, sociodrama and forum theater. We’ll also dip into other expressive therapies including movement, writing, music, and visual arts. 

 

Healing Through Drama will be offered as a 4-part workshop series, with each week building on the next. Participants are encouraged to attend all four sessions to get the most out of the group and dramatherapy tools and practices.


Healing Through Drama is a 4-part program series hosted on Fridays from 10:30am-12:00pm ET, beginning on September 17th (no session on October 8th).

Participants are encouraged to attend all four sessions to get the most out of the program. By registering above, you will be registered for all four sessions. Please let us know in advance if you will not be able to attend all four sessions.

Program Sessions: 

  • Friday, September 17th, 10:30am-12:00pm ET
  • Friday, September 24th, 10:30am-12:00pm ET
  • Friday, October 1st, 10:30am-12:00pm ET
  • Friday, October 15th, 10:30am-12:00pm ET

Suggested Donation: $10/session or $25/series


About Jodi Kanter

Jodi Kanter

Jodi has been involved in theater since she was ten years old. She grew up acting and studying performance in American theater’s “Second City,” Chicago Illinois.  She is currently a professor of theatre in the Corcoran School of the Arts and Design at George Washington University, where she has been on faculty for nearly fifteen years. Her academic work in theater includes her book, Performing Loss: Strengthening Communities Through Theatre and Writing (2007). Jodi’s focus on performance as a tool for individual and social healing and change has led her to create workshops, events and productions in a wide variety of settings including hospitals, schools, and prisons. Most recently, she co-created a four-month diversity and inclusion program for members of DC’s fourteen Neighborhood Village associations using the methodology of Augusto Boal’s Theatre of the Oppressed. Jodi holds a PhD. in Performance Studies from Northwestern University and is currently pursuing a Master’s degree in dramatherapy at Lesley University.

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. In order to participate and receive the Zoom link, register by clicking the RSVP button above or by emailing carla@smithcenter.org.

You will receive the Zoom information no later than the morning of your program.

with Kimberly Parekh and group

Healing Circle for Young Adults with Metastatic Breast Cancer

We are a demand-driven and patient-led in-person and online community support group for young women and men (diagnosed between the age of 18 – 45ish) with metastatic breast cancer (MBC) in the DC, MD, and VA area. We have created this group as a means of providing both a safe community support space for people with MBC, as well as peer-led and expert-led information on living with breast cancer. This group is new and independent of any established breast cancer organization, though we are are in complete gratitude to the Smith Center for hosting us.


We facilitate our group in a democratic and participatory manner; in essence, our group is your group! Interested new members, kindly contact Kimberly Parekh at kimberlyparekh@yahoo.com for an informal intake before coming to your first meeting.

Upcoming Dates:

  • October 14, 6 – 8 PM
  • November 13, 11 AM – 1 PM
  • December 9, 6 – 8 PM

This program is being offered virtually through Zoom. Please click here to register for a 6-week circle.

with Kiersten Gallagher and Paul Puccinelli

Grief Circle

Please join us in a series Healing Circles for Grief “to discover the extent and limits of what is lost, what is left and what is possible.”  – John Schneider

If you have lost a loved one, this is an opportunity to share what is on your heart and mind right now, to listen and be listened to deeply and generously. Together we create a safe space for listening to messages from our inner experience. 

Our healing circles are a safe and supportive space to walk with each other through these times. Each circle is a blend of sharing and silence, compassion, and curiosity. Our agreements ensure acceptance and confidentiality. We honor our own unique paths to healing and respect the choices of others.


Some Assumptions about Grief

  • The experience of grief is unique for each individual. While we can make some general assumptions, there is no template that describes the experience for all people.
  • Grief is cumulative. That is, each time loss is grieved, the grief encompasses the lifetime of loss and the remnants of each experience.
  • Grief following a significant loss is most often a lifelong process, with each pivotal point in life bringing the grief back up to be processed from a new perspective.
  • Grief, loss and suffering fundamentally changes and reshapes the individual.
  • Grief is not about forgetting or disconnecting. Rather, healthy grief is about remembering the parts of self that get lost amidst the experience and reorienting the individual in their relationship with self, the world and others.
  • Grief is a whole body experience: emotional, physical, spiritual and intellectual. Each have a wide range of expression which can cue us that grief is present.
  • While grief and trauma are often intertwined there are significant differences between them. Trauma should be addressed with trauma specific interventions that often go beyond what is possible in circles.

Adapted from Khris Ford


Grieving Together Healing Circle will meet Weekly on Wednesdays from 2:00-3:30pm EST for 6 weeks.

Grief Circle Dates:

  • October 6, 13, 20 & 27
  • November 3 & 10

About Kiersten Gallagher

Kiersten Gallagher

Kiersten has served as the Cancer Support Program Director for Smith Center since 2014. Before coming to Smith Center, she had the privilege to serve individuals and families living with cancer at Wellness House of Annapolis. Kiersten aims to offer programs to reduce stress and help participants to see the world we live in from different perspectives. She thoroughly enjoys teaching yoga and creativity classes at SmithCenter and encourages gentle movement and creativity in the healing process. Kiersten is a certified yoga instructor through Yoga Alliance and also has her YCAT (Yoga Therapy in Cancer and Chronic Illness) Professional Certification through the Integral Yoga Academy. She has completed Patient Navigation training through Smith Center’s Institute for Integrative Oncology Navigation and has also completed the Commonweal Healing Circles: Advanced Cancer Support Training. Kiersten is also certified in CLIMB®(Children’s Lives Include Moments of Bravery) a program that aims to build upon the strengths of children and increase his/her ability to cope with stress associated with a parent’s illness. She believes in a holistic approach to healing, human relationships and is grateful for each and every day. In her spare time, you may find Kiersten laughing with friends, cycling, taking art classes, practicing yoga and spending time with her husband Shane, son Liam, and dogs Hooper and Pablo.